Wise-Women List Archive File
[Editor's note: These two messages are from separate threads, but contain invaluable information
for anyone who wants to design an effective logo.]
[Someone] mentioned doing it in black and white with no shades of grey...but
while I was looking at some of those logo books, there are TONS of logos
that I know would look awful if they were faxed. Photocoping would still
pick up the shades of grey, but a fax doesn't always do such a good job.
What do these people do? Do they have a separate, similar logo to use for
such instances or what? (I wish I would've written down these companies...a
lot of them restaurants....maybe that's why? Cuz a restaurant doesn't
usually fax stuff? Or do they?
Yes, several different versions of logos are often created, though in books
you may see only the fanciest version. There might be black & white, black,
grey and white, color, etc., plus horizontal versions and vertical versions.
There are sometimes different versions created for reproduction in various
size ranges. These might include a version with fine lines and type
"heavied" up for use at very small sizes, and another version with thinner
lines and type for reproduction on signage.
It's good to keep in mind that logos may be used in many more ways than
simply faxed or photocopied, such as:
-- If silkscreened on T-shirts or novelty items, areas with tonal values may
need to be a coarser 50 line screen than when used for offset printing.
-- Logo users may need to cut logos out of logo sheets to paste them on
simple non-digital pasteups for printing by low-end offset printers who use
paper plates requiring a coarse screen instead of metal plates.
-- For signage, logos may be cut out of vinyl sheets.
-- For signage, individual letters may be constructed out of metal with
fluorescent lights inside to make the huge lighted signs that you see on or
in front of buildings (if you watch TV news, you've probably seen the Enron
logo used like a sculpture).
-- shrunk to print on the sides of pencils and pens.
-- silkscreened on huge sheets of clear vinyl for use as signage on the
sides of trucks.
-- molded in plastic or foam, or cast in metal for keychains or other
-- carved out of wood
-- embroidered on patches
-- molded metal jewelry ( http://www.ramcoawards.com/ )
-- fabric banners and stuffed fabric novelty items
-- custom logo watch faces ( http://www.logowatches.com/ )
-- routed out of wood, metal or stone for signage
-- made into brass letters for signage
-- cast acrylic or cut foam letters for signage
To get an idea of more possible uses, look at some of the novelty item
catalogs listed here:
For an idea of various approaches to signage, see:
Another question: I submitted 3 logos for the contest. They chose mine and
wanted to refine it a bit. <snip> Should I mention this to them? Or is it too
late? And how much does one charge for logo design? <snip> for free?
How much would it cost them if they had some top of the line
logo designer doing this for them? (Just as a comparison.)
In general, I have a problem with design contests, simply because they so
often are used to get work done for free. While I was happy to have printed
material from a design contest I won in design school as the first real
printed piece in my portfolio, designers must not allow themselves to be
By all means, tell the client now that you cannot continue doing free design
work on their logo, and tell them that the web site needs to be designed
around the logo, not vice versa.
I can't see much harm in listing pricing guides that are readily available
in published materials (you people really gotta buy the GAG Handbook!!!!)
The Graphic Artist Guild Handbook lists logo design projects for companies
under $1 million in sales at $6000-12,000 for design of a logo system
applicable to all corporate materials including signage and printed
materials. Stationery package alone $3000-6000.
Cameron Foote's pricing survey of over 5000 designers conducted several
years ago listed 'minimum,' 'average small company' and 'average large
company fees for:
Logo and mark design: $600, $5000, $25,000
Corporate identity system: $1200, $7,500, $35,000
Your "top of the line" logo specialists will be going for the major
corporate ID/branding jobs which range can cost upwards of $200,000. They
include zilliions of different applications plus writing/publishing a
corporate graphic standards manual to provide instructions and rules for use
of the logo.